SolidWorks users to Solid Edge

[bryan5]

Maybe it’s just me, but I am noticing that more and more users of SolidWorks are looking at Solid Edge and possibly making the switch.

If this is so, why isn’t there more of a marketing push by Solid Edge to make this happen. Maybe it is and I am not seeing it.

I have used Solid Edge since version7 (not ST7). I have used SolidWorks on and off to test the waters and see what I was missing. I have always thought that Edge was equal to Works but more stable. I was always told that Works was a marketing machine and more user community involved in the early days and this is what differentiated and pushed it passed Edge.

Is Solid Edge dropping the ball here not trying to have a bigger marketing push to switch Solid Works users. I see more of a marketing push to switch Works users from Onshape and Fusion 360 on social media, software blogs, and webinars.

Like I said maybe it is just me. Would love to hear what other Solid Edge community members think about this.

Cheers everyone

[AlexLachance]

Maybe it’s just me, but I am noticing that more and more users of SolidWorks are looking at Solid Edge and possibly making the switch.

If this is so, why isn’t there more of a marketing push by Solid Edge to make this happen. Maybe it is and I am not seeing it.

I have used Solid Edge since version7 (not ST7). I have used SolidWorks on and off to test the waters and see what I was missing. I have always thought that Edge was equal to Works but more stable. I was always told that Works was a marketing machine and more user community involved in the early days and this is what differentiated and pushed it passed Edge.

Is Solid Edge dropping the ball here not trying to have a bigger marketing push to switch Solid Works users. I see more of a marketing push to switch Works users from Onshape and Fusion 360 on social media, software blogs, and webinars.

Like I said maybe it is just me. Would love to hear what other Solid Edge community members think about this.

Cheers everyone

I think there isn't a 'marketing push' because most 'marketing push' are just that, marketing. Most people are able to see past the marketing jargon. Also, people don't look for solutions if they don't have issues. Finally, sucess stories speak for themselves so if people haven't heard about the 'success' of something, the marketing push generally comes off as a simple marketing push and not an actual introduction to an innovation.

[bryan5]

I say marketing, because its a general term, but what I wanted to convey is that there is not a strong presence of Solid Edge when compared to the competition. In my opinion, just from my view, some have chosen certain software because that is what they have seen or heard not necessarily chosen because of an evaluation period of brand A or brand B. I would dare to say that some companies have certain software chosen by executives that don't even use it. Why was it was chosen because it was presented it to them. Some software people are using certain software is because it was given away, like Inventor. A lot of companies had/have inventor because in the beginning it was given away with seats of AutoCAD. I know this because one of our long time customer had this.

NX has always been promoted more, especially by some VARs, and heard of more than Edge because it is a bigger pay day for VARs/Siemens. I would even say there are some using NX and don't need that much and probably have not heard of the red headed step child Solid Edge.

Looking at the rants on the forums of where SolidWorks is heading such as promoting 3DX more than the desktop SolidWorks, I would think that this would be prime time for Solid Edge to get out there to show what they have, but as usual you don't hear anything.

This post is not to say Solid Edge is better than SolidWorks. It's to point out that Solid Edge is still the one CAD software rarely talked about and that, in my opinion , is because of the lack of promotion and presence of Solid Edge.

[zxys001]

Personally, SE and/also NX have never been very good with marketing, imho. Definitely one of their weaknesses. When ST came out.. I thought for sure SE/ST would be an attractive alternative to many in the cad world... but I always wondered... did NX's need to catchup stiffle that? I mean, just like with SW and Catia,..SW was being held back while Catia caught up, imho.

[matt]

Believe it or not, SE actually is trying. They are adding stuff to the software that SW users will find appealing. The good news about SE is that the technical side is WAY out front of the marketing side. If you've used SE in the past, they have added stuff to the workflow to make things more SW-ish hopefully without spoiling anything for existing SE users.

The best part for SW users is that you won't feel anyone trying to pull the rug out from under your feet. SE users I think feel more secure in the future of the product than SW users. I have a hard time imagining people getting newly involved with SW right now.

What confuses me most is that SW has history. But SE has history, Synchronous, Convergent and Subd. And SW can't touch that, and then they are trying to shove you into the unknown on top of all that. And SW users just keep taking it, even though both the product and the company are fully outclassed. And the recent corporatization of the SW reseller channel can't be good for users. I honestly don't get it. No reason to stay with SW at this point other than inertia.

[SPerman]

Possibly, they have figured out that they don't need a lot of marketing. Based on my workflow, and the research I've done, they are the only real alternative to desktop solidworks, at least at the same price point. If you don't want a cloud based solution, the options are limited. For me, it is just a matter of time. I may wait for solidworks to push me out, or I may see a time in the future where I can make the switch with the smallest impact to the company.

If NX were at all price competitive, I would pick that. I can justify the time and money it will take to move away from solidworks, but I cannot justify paying for NX, when I can produce the same results with SE.

[jcapriotti]

What confuses me most is that SW has history. But SE has history, Synchronous, Convergent and Subd. And SW can't touch that, and then they are trying to shove you into the unknown on top of all that. And SW users just keep taking it, even though both the product and the company are fully outclassed. And the recent corporatization of the SW reseller channel can't be good for users. I honestly don't get it. No reason to stay with SW at this point other than inertia.

I think we've mostly reached feature saturation, it's good enough for most to design in so there is little incentive (feature wise) to switch. At this point it will be based on cost, what our vendors use, PLM compatibility, or some other factor not really related to base features.

While SE has more modeling options, that also means they must maintain more and risk spreading your development/support teams thin. As a company using the tool, I would think you have to make some hard choices on when to use certain feature types. If half your users are modeling using history, and the other half in ST, what happens when either must edit the others work? I feel it muddies the water and can create some confusion......kinda wonder if SE should've just went all in and replaced history with ST. That would force them to feature complete any gaps it might have.

[bnemec]

I think we've mostly reached feature saturation, it's good enough for most to design in so there is little incentive (feature wise) to switch. At this point it will be based on cost, what our vendors use, PLM compatibility, or some other factor not really related to base features.

While SE has more modeling options, that also means they must maintain more and risk spreading your development/support teams thin. As a company using the tool, I would think you have to make some hard choices on when to use certain feature types. If half your users are modeling using history, and the other half in ST, what happens when either must edit the others work? I feel it muddies the water and can create some confusion......kinda wonder if SE should've just went all in and replaced history with ST. That would force them to feature complete any gaps it might have.

Oh they tried, hard. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that had us looking at other systems. From the fryer to the fire we went.

[jcapriotti]

Oh they tried, hard. Unfortunately, that's one of the things that had us looking at other systems. From the fryer to the fire we went.

SolidWorks could've capitalized on SE trying to go ST and support history. Instead they're doing their own split by trying to replace Desktop with Cloud. It will never happen here as we are in a different PLM. Most likely we'll end up with Creo if Desktopworks looks to be sunset. Depends on if Dassault backpedals.

[Arthur NY]

We're humans and a lot of us...engineers. And the one thing engineers don't like is change....

Plus as a whole, truly balancing things out most CAD softwares have stagnated in terms of really amazing new modeling features and paradigms that turn heads. Especially when taking a look at the other side of the pond at the VFX/DCC world and the amazing strides being made there it makes CAD OEM's look like snails racing against a F1 Race car. Take the newly developing software, Plasticity, for example... the developer is REALLY taking a fresh look at modeling in CAD that's bring a modeling methods that SE, SW, or IV are really lacking. Sure it's not parametric but as a direct modeling tool it blows the other away.

That said.... there's very little that can't be built in SW, SE, or IV that most user needs aren't being met. How may users get a new car each year rather than keeping the one they have.... or the computer that's only two years old and sure there's a new one but the current one isn't bad.

Where SE and IV lose isn't in functionality it is and always will be the VAR channel. SW's channel is the strongest and that's where the support and training happen. Now the ground swell/grass roots that's happening say around OnShape and F360 have started to lay the foundations towards what the new generations of designers and engineers will look for because they don't have the built in legacy of use that today's users of SW, IV, and SE have.

CAD companies are missing the whole point of what it means to engage with the younger engineers of today. It's like when Pro?E was king of the hill and in '95 SW came along and started cleaning their clock because they started doing what PTC didn't see coming which was CAD on Windows. Granted it took about 10 years for SW to begin to really get a foothold over PTC but it happened. It'll be interesting to see where things are 5 years from now.

[jcapriotti]

CAD companies are missing the whole point of what it means to engage with the younger engineers of today. It's like when Pro?E was king of the hill and in '95 SW came along and started cleaning their clock because they started doing what PTC didn't see coming which was CAD on Windows. Granted it took about 10 years for SW to begin to really get a foothold over PTC but it happened. It'll be interesting to see where things are 5 years from now.

SolidWorks / Edge in the mid to late 90's had several factors working in their favor:

1. The move to Windows workstations from expensive unix boxes. Not only less costly but you no longer need a second PC for emails and office apps.
2. A fraction of the cost. What was the marketing catchphrase "80% of the functionality for 20% of the cost.
3. Easier user interface to learn and common Windows functions baked in (Copy/Paste and other common keyboard shortcuts)

I just don't see an equivalent "perfect storm" today. The move to cloud is a big deal to some but it costs more....or at least no less. And it locks you into a guaranteed monthly/annual fee. The UI changes just aren't enough......SolidWorks in the cloud doesn't appear to operate in a better way than Desktop. Onshape functions just like SolidWorks for the most part.

We were on Catia v4 in the late 90's......the biggest reason for us switching was cost. We bought 25 seats of SolidWorks for the same annual cost as 5 seats of Catia. We had 4 mechanical designers that had dedicated licenses, and one was on a unix box in a room that 10 engineers shared and had to "schedule" time to use. The UI stuff was a bonus but the bean counters needed to see an ROI.

[bryan5]

I agree that Onshape works similar into SolidWorks/ Solid Edge.

Where I see the innovations Onshape is doing is the deployment of the software with some hidden gems.

- No download of software or updates. Everyone using Onshape is on the same version
- Everything is saved automatically, no more worries did I save my work. You can roll back all the way to sketch one.
- It runs on the browser and you don't need a workstation to run it. Great to use on my 10 year old PC.
- Works on any OS, (Mac, Windows, Linux). Runs on laptops, computers, tablets, smart phones ( check out this link of some cool designing done on a Galaxy smart phone: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 873181696/)
- Feature Script, way more powerful than the Macros other software allow you to use to customize your CAD experience. It is also available to you on day one.

Check out this blog post:
https://www.onshape.com/en/blog/six-zer ... evelopment

Like I said in the beginning this is what I see on the innovations Onshape has achieved.

[bryan5]

I guess on the last post I have really gone away from the original post.

[KennyG]

@bryan5 Maybe off topic a bit, but on another note, some of the benefits of Onshape have been available for decades only it was called "mainframe computing". Everyone ran the same "rented" app version on inexpensive "terminal" devices and files were saved automatically.

Basically "what is old is new again"!

[bryan5]

It's like the wheel.

[jcapriotti]

- It runs on the browser and you don't need a workstation to run it. Great to use on my 10 year old PC.

This one I've been skeptical of but not tested yet. You're saying it runs just and fast and smoothly on a $300 laptop from Walmart with no dedicated graphics card? I get you may not need as much CPU and RAM, but it seems you would still need some horsepower to handle the graphics on screen.

[matt]

@bryan5 Maybe off topic a bit, but on another note, some of the benefits of Onshape have been available for decades only it was called "mainframe computing". Everyone ran the same "rented" app version on inexpensive "terminal" devices and files were saved automatically.

Basically "what is old is new again"!

Except for one thing. Everybody wanted to get away from the centralized computer after the invention of the PC. Personal Computer. You can control your own destiny instead of being in the clutches of The Man. Why would companies want to give up control any more than individuals would? Long-term rental is a great way to give away a lot of money. When you can buy a house, you get out from under rentals. You don't lease cars long-term to save money.

Perpetual dependency is the legacy of business people from the last couple of decades. This drive toward subscription everything ... just don't like it.

[KennyG]

@matt Don't like it either. Feels like a "commitment" problem! Break-even is just a few years between subscription and purchase+maintenance typically, and then purchase+maintenance is cheaper. Then there is the controversy of named user licensing vs. concurrent floating... All cloud apps I've see have been named user and that again magnifies the expense explosion if you have lots of casual users, multiple shifts, or utilize a "follow the sun" workforce.

[bryan5]

I have an old computer. I say it is 10 years old but probably older. I have experimented with different options to run CAD on it and here are my results.

I tried Fusion 360 personal edition and 9 out of 10 times it locks ups my old rig before the program can open.

I tried SolidWorks makers edition. It opens but it doesn't take much time before it stops on me.

I use Solid Edge community but after a couple hours it starts to slow down and eventually lock up. This one I have had more success than the hobby editions of the above.

I would like to convert one our work Solid Edge seats to a cloud enabled license to be able to work from home when needed, but if I can't really run the community, edition which essentially the real thing with a few changes, it is not worth switching. Also we have had bad experiences when switching license types with Siemens. Last time we switched a seat from floating to a node lock, we had license issues, which made us unable to run the program for a couple weeks while waiting for the fix. Don't want to go down that rabbit hole again.

I can work from home with Onshape without a hitch. My internet connection is not as fast as work so yes I will get some hiccups but nothing major to keep me from completing my task.

This is my experience.

PS: I would like to see a Solid Edge Browser Edition.

[bryan5]

Just came across that there is a NX X, which is fully featured cloud version of NX that is compatible with desktop NX.

https://plm.sw.siemens.com/en-US/nx/products/nx-x-cad/

https://blogs.sw.siemens.com/xcelerator ... mens-nx-x/

[jcapriotti]

I believe this is similar to the SolidWorks Cloud desktop version......it's just a remote desktop cloud version of the desktop software. SolidWorks uses it for doing trials now I think......and you can use it during beta. So not a separate "cloud" only software like Onshape or Xdesign stuff.

[bryan5]

@jcapriotti The page has it not as a trial (you can try the trial) but another version of NX. Looks like it is on AWS servers like Onshape.

[KennyG]

I believe this is similar to the SolidWorks Cloud desktop version......it's just a remote desktop cloud version of the desktop software. SolidWorks uses it for doing trials now I think......and you can use it during beta. So not a separate "cloud" only software like Onshape or Xdesign stuff.

I think you are right Jason. Basically, a web served virtualized app window that runs NX on a "cloud" workstation. If you did a Teamcenter X trial, that's what you got to test the CAD integration (NX in the cloud).

[bryan5]

If it is just for a trial the webpage is a little misleading. It has peaked my interest. I’ll contact my VAR to get some info. I’ll share what they tell me.

Have a great weekend everyone.

[bryan5]

X

[bryan5]

NX forum gave me this.

https://community.sw.siemens.com/s/ques ... 0977500075

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity ... member_ios

Should find out more from my VAR.

Pretty interesting from Siemens.

[Arthur NY]

@bryan5 There's no perfect anything, it just what works best for you. That you ALWAYS have to have an internet connection to use OnShape and that there is no offline version makes it not idea for every situation. For example F360 has an offline mode so that you can still continue to work and get things done.

Also getting new hardware is par for the course. You can get a $1K laptop and run all of these 3D softwares with no issues. That you don't want to upgrade is more of a you thing than it is a software limitation.

Am not saying that there aren't compelling reason not to use OnShape but it isn't the one stop shop and neither are the others as well.

[jcapriotti]

I'm still wondering about graphics performance for Onshape. Will a retail store laptop with no dedicated video card run and manipulate the UI and model as well as a dedicated workstation? Just seems like the graphics are still rendered locally. CPU and memory are all on the server(s) so you only need enough locally to handle the browse load and the OS.

[bryan5]

I don’t think I said anything was better. I just posted what I have experienced and other cloud software offerings. Sorry if I mislead anyone.

You are right @Arthur NY what works for you might not work for others. I just was sharing my opinion and experiences. Onshape does work for me.

@jcapriotti I have similar questions like you if it could work on simple hardware. From my experiences it has worked well on my old rig, smartphone and work iPad. If I get to run it on something older or simpler I will be happy to share. You never know until you try. Right?

Here is a post of it running on a simple raspberry pi:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 7613952%29

Is it limited? probably, but it still is possible yes. (Probably not practical but it doesn’t hurt to try)

Thanks guys

[KennyG]

Some of this "running on anything" is pure novelty, like running it on a smart phone. A 15" laptop is barely big enough to use temporarily for CAD in my experience. Anything smaller would be useless to me unless I invest in a set of magnifiers for my glasses. Now if we started using it on 3D headsets where the screen size was inconsequential, that would be another story!

[zxys001]

Some of this "running on anything" is pure novelty, like running it on a smart phone. A 15" laptop is barely big enough to use temporarily for CAD in my experience. Anything smaller would be useless to me unless I invest in a set of magnifiers for my glasses. Now if we started using it on 3D headsets where the screen size was inconsequential, that would be another story!

Yeah, maybe on my smart watch or as they show later, a steam controller,.. they're all a cute and fun novelty.

[bryan5]

@KennyG I use it mainly on my I phone to do quick adjustments on designs while visiting customers like hole/cutout changes, length, width, thickness, add remove radius/chamfers and pockets, etc. I also get to get a jump start on projects on the ride back from the customer visit (when I am not driving) while some key details are still fresh in the ole noggin.I guess it’s a novelty until you start to use it for actual work.

I was able to start this design of an enclosure during a ride back from a customer visit. I rolled it back to when the ride was over:

I recently did this concept logo for a local racing series that was looking to make a branding iron while sitting on the couch watching TV during commercial breaks:

I find I get the most control using a cheap little stylus instead of my fat fingers on the I phone.

The IPhone use helps me get a jump start or stay on top of projects when on the road. The novelty part of it has washed away for me now that I use it as another tool from the CAD tool box.

[jcapriotti]

The IPhone use helps me get a jump start or stay on top of projects when on the road. The novelty part of it has washed away for me now that I use it as another tool from the CAD tool box.

Man, you must be addicted to self inflicted pain . If I'm on the road, the laptop is coming out and getting tethered to my phone. I could see using this as a viewer and for "lite" markups, but for any serious cad work, doing that on your phone is terribly inefficient. To each their own though, buy my pain tolerance isn't that high. I barely like doing internet research on my phone, I need a big screen and usually more than one. Maybe it's my age showing.

[KennyG]

Man, you must be addicted to self inflicted pain . If I'm on the road, the laptop is coming out and getting tethered to my phone. I could see using this as a viewer and for "lite" markups, but for any serious cad work, doing that on your phone is terribly inefficient. To each their own though, buy my pain tolerance isn't that high. I barely like doing internet research on my phone, I need a big screen and usually more than one. Maybe it's my age showing.

My thoughts exactly, including the "Maybe it's my age showing."

[SPerman]

When I work on my laptop, I find myself thinking "only one screen? How am I supposed to operate like this?"

[bryan5]

I wouldn't call it pain. It is nice not to have to lug around the laptop and I can get stuff done with just the phone. Doing real work on the phone, tablet, laptop and desktop is pretty cool.

To each his own right.

[jcapriotti]

When I work on my laptop, I find myself thinking "only one screen? How am I supposed to operate like this?"

Yeah......only one monitor feels like I have one hand tied behind my back. But a phone screen to edit documents or images feels like I'm trying use a pencil with my foot. Too much clicking flyout menus and and scrolling to find stuff.

Like I said, even doing research......like for a family vacation we have planned for later this year, it's painful. I even started it my ipad pro (12.9 screen) and had to move over to my desktop with two 32" monitors. I need to pull up multiple browser windows so can I compare condos and other information side by side while typing notes and doing number crunching in a spreadsheet. On the ipad, still too much minimizing of windows and trying to find them. A phone screen would be torture.

[bnemec]

Yeah......only one monitor feels like I have one hand tied behind my back. But a phone screen to edit documents or images feels like I'm trying use a pencil with my foot. Too much clicking flyout menus and and scrolling to find stuff.

Like I said, even doing research......like for a family vacation we have planned for later this year, it's painful. I even started it my ipad pro (12.9 screen) and had to move over to my desktop with two 32" monitors. I need to pull up multiple browser windows so can I compare condos and other information side by side while typing notes and doing number crunching in a spreadsheet. On the ipad, still too much minimizing of windows and trying to find them. A phone screen would be torture.

The developers have a solution to that. They are making the desktop GUIs feel more like phones/tablet GUIs with more space consumed by bigger tap menus and icons in flyouts, so you'll be more at home on any device. You'll be 1000x more productive.

[jcapriotti]

The developers have a solution to that. They are making the desktop GUIs feel more like phones/tablet GUIs with more space consumed by bigger tap menus and icons in flyouts, so you'll be more at home on any device. You'll be 1000x more productive.

At least Microsoft back peddled from that Windows 8 atrocious UI.

There are still remnants in Win10 I can't stand but its tolerable. Haven't tried Win11 yet.

[SPerman]

W11 is different. And from what I can tell, different just for the sake of being different. Maybe it is an improvement if you aren't a grump old man.

[jcapriotti]

W11 is different. And from what I can tell, different just for the sake of being different. Maybe it is an improvement if you aren't a grump old man.

As I get older I can appreciate being a grump more and more. Change where it improves something is great, but half the time it's for no good reason or for "marketing" reasons. Like stores moving their their stuff for no reason other than to make you look for it and keep you in the store longer in hopes you'll buy more stuff. Because we all need more "stuff".

Speaking of stuff
https://cadforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=27918#p27918

[bryan5]

Where this post started and where it is now....I think we took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.