Engineering - Linked in/Face book?

[MJuric]

I'm wondering if something like I'm about to describe exists in one form or another.

I have in one form or another been involved with acquiring and or hiring resources (Engineering, CNC Programming, Machinist) for the last almost 30 years. Over that time frame there has been a few problems that have existed that where difficult to impossible to eliminate.

1) Temporary staffing. It is often the case that you will have a project, particularly in Engineering somewhat less for CNC programming, that needs a large influx of help but only temporarily. Often times you are faced with two choices, don't take the project or plan on keeping these people on staff indefinitely which brings up it's own set of problems.

2) Finding these resources. Resources like head hunters and online resume places have helped with this but also made the last issue a larger problem.

3) Finding qualified resources. I can't tell you how many times I've hired or seen people hired that "Could walk on water" in the area you're hiring but then turns out they need floaties and noodle just to keep from drowning.

So my thought was does something exist like a Linked in Face Book combo where others have some input about an individuals claims of "Expertise"? We all know people who "Claim" to be the worlds greatest at something and turns out they....well they suck.

I realize the dangers here of a complete "Wild West" where anyone can give any input about anyone on anything so my thoughts would be that this input would be limited based on some algorithm and moderation. Again, no idea how this would work but would be curious if anyone was aware of anything close.

I see this as a bit of a boon for people looking for independent work and specifically useful to separate the wheat from the chaff. It would also be a huge benefit for companies looking to add temporary staff.

So for instance if you were looking for someone to help with a project that involved designs for several plastic injection molds using Solidworks you could search for those attributes. You would end up with a list of people and those people would be "Rated" in some way by other people that knew them or of them and so on.

[Merovingien]

first point, it's important to remind somthing : people who use "social media" is a total bad word.
because it's not managed by the country social departement.

the correct word is "private company who will sell your datas and do tons of ads, and after offer the possibility to dicuss-exchange between people"...

after, in case of a system you are talking, it sound to me like a "3d experience thing", if not many people will register, use it.
This will represent only a very low % of people you are searching.
Thus, with the minority of users on it, having a correct feedback on someone is not easy.
Thus, if you leave a company, did good work in it, but had bad relation with someone, if that "someon" write a back feedback on you, this will be an interesting feedback.

and also, with these rating websites, come the company who sell "good feedbacks" to improve a profil...

And also, people usually do the effort to write an online feedback to say they are unhappy about something.
They rarely take time to write when something good happen, because they don't want to loose time...

[Merovingien]

one thing when doing an interview to someone, is maybe ask for a "test" (in the first or second meeting with him).
and in that "test", it's important to create it to get inside some case study, need in 3d, need in 2d, with some "trap" if needed,
and keep that test not too long to pass it.

this will be more revelant than the "I'm a kind with Solidworks, I'm a champion" on a CV.

[MJuric]

first point, it's important to remind somthing : people who use "social media" is a total bad word.
because it's not managed by the country social departement.

the correct word is "private company who will sell your datas and do tons of ads, and after offer the possibility to dicuss-exchange between people"...

after, in case of a system you are talking, it sound to me like a "3d experience thing", if not many people will register, use it.
This will represent only a very low % of people you are searching.
Thus, with the minority of users on it, having a correct feedback on someone is not easy.
Thus, if you leave a company, did good work in it, but had bad relation with someone, if that "someon" write a back feedback on you, this will be an interesting feedback.

and also, with these rating websites, come the company who sell "good feedbacks" to improve a profil...

And also, people usually do the effort to write an online feedback to say they are unhappy about something.
They rarely take time to write when something good happen, because they don't want to loose time...

I agree on essentially everything you said here but was wondering if something like this existed.

I don't see how something like this works at all without some level of moderation and or algorithms of some sort. You can't just have anyone log on and give good or bad feed back to anyone and have that carry as much weight as someone known to have a lot of experience in the appropriate field. You also can't have a "Heavy hitter" come in with a grudge and submarine someone just because they don't like them.

Of course the possibility of "Paid feedbacks" is an issue as well but there are also ways to limit that effect.

In any case it would seem that something better than a resume would be possible.

[MJuric]

one thing when doing an interview to someone, is maybe ask for a "test" (in the first or second meeting with him).
and in that "test", it's important to create it to get inside some case study, need in 3d, need in 2d, with some "trap" if needed,
and keep that test not too long to pass it.

this will be more revelant than the "I'm a kind with Solidworks, I'm a champion" on a CV.

I think tests are valuable to find out about basic skills but not worth much after that. It's pretty hard to "test" to see if someone can design a spindle until they actually design a spindle and a 40-80hr test isn't all that reasonable. Same thing goes for CNC programmers and Machinist. You "Test" basic skills but it's really hard to test higher skills which is usually the problem.

There are a lot of good "CAD Jockies" that can't design their way out of a paper bag.

[mike miller]

I don't do LinkedUp, Fartbook, or Twatter. IMHO, the dudes bragging up their skills on social media are likely the ones wearing skinny jeans and a knit beanie and riding a foldup scooter (like in the Autodesk ads). The arrogant attitude comes free.

[/rant]

[Frederick_Law]

Linkedin, face book is just another CV. User can and will put whatever there.
Probably setup a set of tests for the first week to determine if the new hire could survive.
Start with lower paid, move up if pass the test. Move again up after a month.
Both parties need some time to "get along". Give them something to do will help.

[matt]

If you want referrals for people who design injection molds, I can send you some names.

[Roasted By John]

I can send you a name if you need someone to design Furniture

[Roasted By John]

and....

Custom Bulk Handling Equipment - Sheet Metal etc - Custom Equipment etc.

[MJuric]

I don't do LinkedUp, Fartbook, or Twatter. IMHO, the dudes bragging up their skills on social media are likely the ones wearing skinny jeans and a knit beanie and riding a foldup scooter (like in the Autodesk ads). The arrogant attitude comes free.

[/rant]

Which is the reason for having others "Vote" on your personal claims. For instance Bob says he can design anything with any CAD system. Joe says he can Design anything in any CAD system. Larry knows Bob and Joe and knows that Bob is a blowhard but Joe is an absolute genius that can actually design anything on just about and system. So he gives Bob a 1 and Joe a 9 and so on.

I would also think that you would weight the votes. So if Joe from the above scenario ends up with a rating of 8.7352 and Bob ends up with a 1.8153 rating when Bob rates someones comments it would have less weight than Joe's.

With a system like that you essentially endanger your rank by embellishing. The more you embellish the more likely people will give you a lower rank.

[SPerman]

What could possibly go wrong with a system like that in today's climate?

[MJuric]

If you want referrals for people who design injection molds, I can send you some names.

Not looking for injection molds but may have an upcoming need for competent machine tool designers, detailers and checkers....which is what triggered this thought. I know that this is an issue around the industry. Companies do not want to carry an employee load equal to their maximum need. The cost of hiring and time frame to do so is too long when you get a PO for a job that requires 30% more engineering, CNC programming etc etc capacity than what you have.

Around here we used to have a bunch of small engineering firms that you could go to, but even those are far and few these days it seems.

[MJuric]

What could possibly go wrong with a system like that in today's climate?

I think it could only exist under some pretty heavy moderation and stringent rules. If you made it like an open comment or voting scenario it would devolve into a complete cluster in no time.

[Roasted By John]

Not looking for injection molds but may have an upcoming need for competent machine tool designers, detailers and checkers....which is what triggered this thought. I know that this is an issue around the industry. Companies do not want to carry an employee load equal to their maximum need. The cost of hiring and time frame to do so is too long when you get a PO for a job that requires 30% more engineering, CNC programming etc etc capacity than what you have.

Around here we used to have a bunch of small engineering firms that you could go to, but even those are far and few these days it seems.

When can I start???

[MJuric]

When can I start???

Note the "May have a need" portion of my post. Right now we are low on Engineers and Big on having several "Potential" jobs coming in. To make matters even less predictable the company has in the last four months made a "Shift in direction we are taking the company"....so at this point there is a whole lot of unpredictability.

We have few really cool projects we've been "Quoting" for a couple years that "May" break loose. That being said they may not fit the "New company direction"

[Roasted By John]

Might have to wait till June to start

[Roasted By John]

I have often said...

"I can't buy anything at the grocery store with Potential"

[Frederick_Law]

Note the "May have a need" portion of my post. Right now we are low on Engineers and Big on having several "Potential" jobs coming in. To make matters even less predictable the company has in the last four months made a "Shift in direction we are taking the company"....so at this point there is a whole lot of unpredictability.

We have few really cool projects we've been "Quoting" for a couple years that "May" break loose. That being said they may not fit the "New company direction"

Contact Rick.
His company is great at dealing with unpredictability on inconsistency.

Sounds like you need contracted workers.

[Frederick_Law]

"I can't buy anything at the grocery store with Potential"

Just walk in with enough potential and you can get anything.
Like 100000V potential.

[MJuric]

Contact Rick.
His company is great at dealing with unpredictability on inconsistency.

Sounds like you need contracted workers.

If we get the projects we would definitely need contractors. The hard part is finding one that can actually do the work. Been involved in several cases where that was not the case.

[Frederick_Law]

Create a "challenge" and see how they do.
Model an assembly. Make part and assembly drawings with BOM.
Throw in some import parts.
Something that can be done in a day.

[Roasted By John]

If we get the projects we would definitely need contractors. The hard part is finding one that can actually do the work. Been involved in several cases where that was not the case.

Normally, if a guy is good, the first test in my opinion is;

#1 - Does he have pictures of what he worked on (if it's pictures of one item multiple times, or one picture of each multiple job, there's a difference)
#2 - A Customer List with references etc..
#3 - Having a CSWP shows some commitment in gauging his expertise (wouldn't hang a lot on this)
#4 -

[mattpeneguy]

Create a "challenge" and see how they do.
Model an assembly. Make part and assembly drawings with BOM.
Throw in some import parts.
Something that can be done in a day.

Just have them model a few examples and see how they do:

[RichGergely]

Create a "challenge" and see how they do.
Model an assembly. Make part and assembly drawings with BOM.
Throw in some import parts.
Something that can be done in a day.

I'm a freelance consultant and if someone asked me to do that I would in most cases just turn it down, I would guess most half decent freelancers would do the same unless they were really desperate.

I stand by my previous work and would give references if the client requested (unless the reference was a direct competitor).

As a freelancer you need to be careful on how much time you waste on maybe work.

[mattpeneguy]

I'm a freelance consultant and if someone asked me to do that I would in most cases just turn it down, I would guess most half decent freelancers would do the same unless they were really desperate.

I stand by my previous work and would give references if the client requested (unless the reference was a direct competitor).

As a freelancer you need to be careful on how much time you waste on maybe work.

What I read into here is that you can't model any of these:

image.png (69.03 KiB) Viewed 6086 times

Kidding aside, I see the point here. What's more important, having someone who can quickly model something or would you rather have someone who may take their time and model in some design intent, but more slowly? How do test for that?

I can go through and produce the CSWA part in no time without errors...But, what's that really worth?

[Frederick_Law]

"rather have someone who may take their time and model in some design intent, but more slowly"
Fast, inaccurate means waste lots of time to manage and clean up.
Doing that for the one I replaced.
Did a BOM with a 500 parts imported assembly.
Didn't even sort the BOM. So item 1 is part 475. Item 2 is part 164. They did an order that way.
We got new order with new rev and trying to match all the parts.
Fun.
A simple test could eliminate that.

[mattpeneguy]

"rather have someone who may take their time and model in some design intent, but more slowly"
Fast, inaccurate means waste lots of time to manage and clean up.
Doing that for the one I replaced.
Did a BOM with a 500 parts imported assembly.
Didn't even sort the BOM. So item 1 is part 475. Item 2 is part 164. They did an order that way.
We got new order with new rev and trying to match all the parts.
Fun.
A simple test could eliminate that.

I like to do things like that to keep my coworkers on their toes...

[MJuric]

I'm a freelance consultant and if someone asked me to do that I would in most cases just turn it down, I would guess most half decent freelancers would do the same unless they were really desperate.

I stand by my previous work and would give references if the client requested (unless the reference was a direct competitor).

As a freelancer you need to be careful on how much time you waste on maybe work.

I don't know too many people working for "Temp Work" would spend a day working for free. Thus the need for some other method of finding out who is capable and who is a blow hard.

[MJuric]

I can go through and produce the CSWA part in no time without errors...But, what's that really worth?

Nothing if you're trying to hire someone that knows how to design something. I would look for a person like that if I had a whole bunch of paper drawings turned into CAD models though

I think finding a CAD jockey is pretty easy and could be done with rather simple testing. Finding a good designer is an altogether different story.

I suspect that engineering/manufacturing is not the only sector plagued with this. From personal experience there are a whole lot of doctors out there that would "Pass a test"...not too many good doctors though.

[Merovingien]

is this post another "America center of the world" need ?

or international ? europe ? asie ? you didn't precise that.

[MJuric]

is this post another "America center of the world" need ?

or international ? europe ? asie ? you didn't precise that.

Not sure what you're saying here. I do live in the US and since I have no experience working in Europe, Asia or New Zealand I have scant little knowledge of what the job markets are like in those areas.

I can say, that in my experience, pretty much ubiquitously, across the US we have an issue in manufacturing with lack of skilled labor. This includes Engineering thru manufacturing.

This may be a uniquely American thing because we have spent the last 30+ years telling everyone that "We don't need manufacturing", "We can be a Service Society" and "Go to college, get a degree and get a job that does not involve getting your hands dirty".

Also for what it's worth I suspect there are some European countries in the same boat. I've talked to a couple people from European countries that have described a similar path and similar result.

China being very Manufacturing centric probably less of an issue.