CAD Forum

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:51 am Besides, deciding to not 'carry over' data isn't so bad, as long as it's still accessible to view and edit if there aren't additional costs. For instance, I had to search last week for something I designed in 2011 on AutoCAD before we transitionned to SolidWorks. The design was carried over to 3D, but not all the studies we had done around the development of the product. We were looking to develop a new version of that product but didn't want to cross-check the same concepts we had refuted in the previous conception.

In our first conception, we had refuted a few concepts because of certains criterias. We didn't want to cross-check these same concepts a second time only to end up on the same conclusion as the first time, so we had to go back and access data from 2011. Thankfully, DWG's and DXF's do not have much limitations in viewing and editing them, so there is no additional cost to having to do so. They are "Archived", but can be accessed.

I doubt I could say the same for SolidWorks, or any other line of CAD System. I'd also like to put the emphasis on how that definetly would not be possible if we were to be using a Cloud.

I can imagine companies in a few years which will have been on the Cloud for a few years, wanting to switch programs and not being able to because the companies that make the programs find different ways to hold data hostage.

bnemec wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:48 am We are still maintaining (revising) parts that started in the 90s. We still make the parts, and continue to use them in new custom products.

bnemec wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:48 am Consider yourself fortunate that old data is "dormant" or more or less "for reference only". We are still maintaining (revising) parts that started in the 90s. We still make the parts, and continue to use them in new custom products. I wish I could have better understood the impact of how this kind of CAD data usage impacts a migration to different CAD system. Also the people selling product either ignore this case or just have never seen it, so they use the same examples you just provided. Those suggestions are fine, when they are applicable. I'm the fool for trusting and not knowing better.

We looked and tried to figure some of this out instead of living through it. I'm just saying that changing from one solid modeling software to another solid modeling software can be vastly different from one place to another. It takes someone that has used both systems and is familiar with how you use CAD to be able to provide useful insight.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm Do you need to keep all the old revs?

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm Or different rev is used in different products?

Tahhhd wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:43 am start by telling them that you want to change their title block

Tahhhd wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:43 am If you want to get an accurate preview of what you will be up against when attempting to get the company to move to another software, start by telling them that you want to change their title block - something major, shuffle all of the information around, move it to another corner of the drawing sheet, change the way initials are entered or suggest using an "employee code number", and see how well this relatively small amount of change is received by everyone.

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:49 am Todd,

I agree with everything you said, except this part. Don't ask them. Just do it. Beg forgiveness later if anyone complains. What can go wrong?

Tahhhd wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:15 pm "I think we should use favorite ice cream flavor"

Tahhhd wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:15 pm Would have saved me WEEKS at a place I used to work - The amount of time that was spent just going over how to "sign" the print was incredible . . .
"First and Last Initial?"
"No, we should use all 3 initials"
"I think we should use employee code"
"I think we should use first initial and last name"
"I think we should use favorite ice cream flavor"
ugh

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:53 pm If two people are involved in making a decision it takes four times as long as with just one. If three people are involved it takes eight times as long. Do your own math as the group gets larger.

The importance of the subject is immaterial.

Jim Elias wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:40 pm The reason why the SW forum here sees so much more activity compared to the others

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:42 pm Have you visit AutoDesk Inventor forum?

SW forum got so much activity because people need to complain about SolidDoesn'tWork

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:36 am https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/bd-p/78

Here is mostly SW users from the old SW forum.
Of course there are mostly SW post.

If you use post counts here, we're more about Joke then SW
https://www.cadforum.net/viewforum.php?f=30

Pernils wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 am For me I just can't see the benefit to preview something that will not be the end result. That's just waste of time as I sees it.

Just to pick an example ..


This is a perfect example of you NOT understanding the software and trying to make it seem like it's doing something it isn't meant to. Sure there's a preview, should it not...that could be up for debate. What you should be using, while mirroring, is Body to Mirror, not feature which will give the correct result.

The main reason why this is not working is that the end condition of "up to surface" is not on the other side. You're thinking that the software will select the surface on the other side for you and it won't and it shouldn't. Having the software arbitrarily select something is never a good idea.

Again your ability to not want to understand your short coming and then blaming it on the software is just all types of insane. But hey let's continue with this shall we.....

josh wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:29 pm I watched the whole video. I didn't see much in the way of shortcomings. Mostly minor differences and personal preferences in the interface or the steps used. Some of the complaints could be solved by changing settings, using Instant3D, etc. Looks like creating section views in SW is less than half the clicks of SE, but no mention of that...

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:32 am Is there a way to swap crtl / shift when using the unergonomic placed scrollwheel for pan and zoom ?

Blender have scrollwheel + shift for pan.
SE have the option for scrollwheel + shift for pan. (Normal you use right button .. but whatever..)
FeeCad have "blender mode" for pan/zoom


So would like have same in SW.

SW is marketing it self as extensive customable .. so do we have the option ?

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:04 am I admit that I have missed instant2d and instant3d, will explore those for comparison.

But the fact is that both product is so called midrange cad system. One of them have still to this date a non responsive modelling environment, in other word is forcing end user to constant give a command for rebuild. It's like you are back in -90s and autocads redraw command.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:04 am
I admit that I have missed instant2d and instant3d, will explore those for comparison.

But the fact is that both product is so called midrange cad system. One of them have still to this date a non responsive modelling environment, in other word is forcing end user to constant give a command for rebuild. It's like you are back in -90s and autocads redraw command.

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:38 am Instant 3d will change your life. I really like being able to click on a feature in the tree, have its dimensions displayed in the graphics area, single-click on one, edit it, and the model updates immediately without a manual rebuild.

josh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:23 am It is actually pretty hilarious that you put these two sentences back to back. Enabling Instant3D is exactly what will change this "forcing end user to constant give a command for rebuild."

It’s actually my preference not to rebuild until I say to rebuild. There are times when a design change requires modifying multiple related dimensions. The way the model is built, the geometry would break if it rebuilds with one dimension changed while the other is not. Controlling when to rebuild allows me to change both dimensions, then rebuild, preventing annoying rebuild errors. The other benefit is working with complicated models. Again, if I know I need to modify multiple dimensions, waiting for a rebuild on a complex model after each change would be annoying. Controlling when to rebuild allows me to make all my changes, then rebuild and execute them all at once, minimizing my waiting time.

Of course, this 100% does not discount your muscle memory. I totally agree that after doing things one way for 20 years, you become very set in your ways. I’m certain that if I were to switch to the SE way of doing things, I’d have similar annoyances at interfaces and concepts. My only issue is with calling them shortcomings. They’re just differences.

BTW, I have a suggestion for your issues with the sketch symmetry constraint. If you wish to have symmetry, draw one half, then draw the mirror line, then use the sketch mirror command to create the symmetric side rather than drawing both halves and then applying the symmetry constraint. It’s much faster, and I believe the symmetry constraints that it will automatically create are closer to the ones you expect from SE.

Additionally, there’s a fine point about symmetry concepts in SW that may help you. In SW, a sketched line segment consists actually of a theoretical infinite line bounded by endpoints. If you apply symmetry to a line segment, as you have found, the symmetry applies to the theoretical infinite lines. This allows you the flexibility to then apply (or not apply) a symmetry constraint on the endpoints of the line. You can apply symmetry to either or both endpoints. In your video you contrasted the behavior when applying symmetry to circles with applying symmetry to lines, saying the behavior is inconsistent. But if you consider the theoretical side of the geometry, behavior is actually the same. A theoretically infinite line is defined by its angle and its position in space. A complete circle is defined by its radius and its centerpoint. However, if you consider arcs, they are theoretical circles bounded by endpoints. If you will create two arcs and apply symmetry between them, you’ll find they behave exactly as the lines do. The arcs themselves (centerpoint and radius) are constrained to be symmetric, but the endpoints of the arcs are not constrained symmetric unless you add that constraint.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:29 am After testing it out ...

Instant 3d is sort of similar to SE's dynamic edit but I find I get more freedom if I could grap the vertex from the different element in the sketch.

I made a video in this thread that show little bit of how it works in SE.
viewtopic.php?t=2531


If I compare it to SE sync environment ..... its impossible ...

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 am I rather confident that after you have been in a "responsive" modelling environment you will never go back. (You can try SE community edition for free to see for you self..)

I discarded SE sync environment for over 15 years. I had it at my fingertips but never used it. Now when I'm stuck in SW I find SE sync environment extremely powerful dealing with surfaces and so on (using SE community edition).

My hunch is that if I ask the blender community if their workflow would improve if they where forced to hammer a rebuild button they will think I'm mad.
The need for rebuild function is a flaw that Dassault can't get rid off. Broken product or conservative user base or both.

Over my 25+ year as cad driver I have encounter more times that I want to lines/arcs to be at the same angle and length then just angle wise. Hence my reaction on it.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:32 am .. so do we have the option ?

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:38 am Yes, option work in most CAD.
https://3dconnexion.com/ca/spacemouse/

Any serious CAD user should have one, or two.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:42 am Glad you bought it up. I have one on my desk. Used for half a year and then decided to not use it.

I have the SpaceMouse Pro. If it died, and the company wouldn't replace it (they would, but that's beside the point), I'd buy my own.

Don't want to drag back and forth from home

I'd rather drag it back and forth than work without it.

You sort of must use the keyboard so why shouldn't you have your hand where those keys are ?

Moving my hand 4" isn't that big a deal, and is well worth it to get the advantages of the 3d mouse. I have a button on my 3d mouse that I can click on to get a number pad when I need to enter a value.

Using blender att home and need the "scroolwheel" training.

But moving the finger back and forth from left to scroolwheel is annoying.
SE solution by using right button and shift + ctrl is god as it can be.

I doubt very much that anything on a keyboard works better than my 3d mouse for manipulating a model.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:42 am Glad you bought it up. I have one on my desk. Used for half a year and then decided to not use it.

Don't want to drag back and forth from home
You sort of must use the keyboard so why shouldn't you have your hand where those keys are ?
Using blender att home and need the "scroolwheel" training.

But moving the finger back and forth from left to scroolwheel is annoying.
SE solution by using right button and shift + ctrl is god as it can be.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:17 pm Keep complaining is an option.
Find your own solution is an option.
Give it all up is an option.
You can have other options.
My options are not your options.
Neither are yours.

Now, I do hate SW. That's not an option.

bnemec wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:28 pm I dislike SW about as much as I disliked SE; just for different reasons. I only used Inventor for a little while part time, I'd probably dislike that one too if I had used it full time long enough.

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:13 pm You might like to read this article that a wise man wrote a couple of years ago about switching CAD softwares: https://dezignstuff.com/can-software-x- ... oftware-y/

bnemec wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:28 pm I dislike SW about as much as I disliked SE; just for different reasons. I only used Inventor for a little while part time, I'd probably dislike that one too if I had used it full time long enough.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:41 pm But for daily use I found out that I would be more "mobile" if can get away whit out it . For example when you are forced to be present in a meeting room and so on.

Great if it works for you but I just don't want to be depended on it, just simple as that.

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:38 pm Which piques my curiosity, which did you like?

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:15 am I watched the video. If you mean the way you would drag a corner of the sketch or extrude and move it, I never tried that since I fully define my sketches with relations and dimensions so they don't get pulled out of place.

I did pick up a couple of other things. First, it seems that in SE you have to go up to the Command Manager (maybe it has a different name in SE) to apply sketch relations instead of having them right there at your cursor. I wouldn't like that.


image.png


Second, I don't know if you're interested in advice, but if you want people who aren't familiar with the software to be able to follow what you're doing when you record a video like that you might want to consider slowing down. If you just want to show how fast you can work, then it's fine.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:48 pm
Okay everyone thinks .. this is exactly what we have been telling you all the time.. but for me example a part behave different selection wise if it have a cosmetic thread or not is a flaw and not a needed feature. Even Matt is pointing out that a consistent behaviour is important element in a software.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:48 pm I'm interested in what you don't like with SE.

josh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:19 pm But you didn't show a cosmetic thread. You showed a modeled geometry thread with only edges, which should be rarely done. So the only thing available for you to select was a helical edge. This is what a cosmetic thread looks like, and it allows you to still select the cylindrical face.

Incidentally, the thread that you showed in SE was different, more of an acme type profile with flat crests rather than the sharp ones in the SW model. If you'd modeled acme threads in SW, there would still be a cylindrical face to select.
image.png

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:15 pm From what I have seen, SW users seems to be more keen to fully constrain their sketches.

bnemec wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:27 pm Oh man, I had a list somewhere...

For starters:
image.png

The Ribbon ruined many a good CAD UI's, but SE took it to a new level by hiding Settings and other things behind this thing. In SW simply pressing R brings up recent file dialog...

Then the settings layout. They literally took all the settings (Document, User, System, etc) put them in a basket, shook them up then kind divided them up by some filter of which I never discovered the secrets of. I don't know they did either. With a tab called "Helpers" in settings? Really? It's like the junk drawer for all the left overs. Kinda reminds me of the stand up comedian that tried to explain the two letter state abbreviations of the USA.
image.png

So there is no clear identification of which settings are saved in document, registry, or the various settings files. On the bright side SE settings is less modal and has an Apply button that SW is lacking so the user doesn't need to go through the entire process to test each change.

This one gets a line of its own, SE decided to only show settings that are relevant to the type of files that are currently open. Oh that was so frustrating, and for why I have no idea. Dumbest thing to do. "I see you do not have an assembly file open so I''ll just hide all the settings relating to assemblies because I assume you'll never open another one again."
image.png
Stop hiding the settings!

If you want to know what settings layout should look like, look at how Visual Studio has them.

When ST came along we lost all the free training materials. Back around ST9 we were onboarding some new hires and I pretty much had to make all our own tutorials (which were bad to be honest) because of all the hundreds of tutorials on the Siemens website, a grand total of three were not ST. If they would have just kept the old ones of ordered mode and updated when needed for new menus, icons, options, etc. that would have been great. But they pretty much dropped all training support or ordered mode. We had no training materials for ordered mode of the new releases other than what we made ourselves and a few you tube vids.

There's a bunch of other little stupid things it did that were in the minutia. For example I was making a helical cam-like part and the feature didn't solve correctly when the number of turns was less than one. I had to put in something like .25 to get 1/3 of a turn. Double clicking a view would open the assembly, which was nice; except when the assembly was a FOA, then double clicking a view would open the member assembly, not the family and if the assembly file was saved the family was gone and only the member that the drawing view was connected to remains. A bunch of little things that you'd run into, find out it's a quirk in the software and then find a different way to do it. Like most CAD systems have.

Pernils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:15 pm . . . From what I have seen, SW users seems to be more keen to fully constrain their sketches.