CAD Forum

Since a lot of us here had been complaining how bad the SWAMP is...

I thought I will start this new thread for everyone to pay tribute to all the "bad designs" that make you laugh, cringe, or both.

Feel free to drop any "bad design", be it software, hardware, user interface, graphic, etc, etc.

... if great designs deserve compliments, crappy designs are also worthy of attention to.

My all time favorite:

Flag design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4
Old Pocatello flag used from 2001 to 2017

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:02 am

2021-02-11 14_36_36.jpg

When did I send you one of my sketches?

And a list of non-CAD stuff.

• HP printers

• USB ports

• Microsoft Teams

• people

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:10 am And a list of non-CAD stuff.

• HP printers

• USB ports

• Microsoft Teams

• people

Ah USB... something that i always like to call it as:

Symmetry design without symmetry use

I came across a "new" shampoo bottle design today and thought it deserve a spot here...

Unlike most shampoo bottle that i normally use, this design is Push to open, instead of the more common flip to open design When looking at the top view, it do not give any indication on how to open. The arrow label did not give any clear indication on how should i open it.
After numerous try of flipping, pressing, pulling, turning, i finally get it open by pushing it as the arrow indicated... It do have a non-obvious push label which i only notice when i am taking the picture. Without my glasses, i can barely see the wording though. It also feel rather awkward to push the lid because of the small cutout/opening
The push-lid design also sort of "push" back the excess shampoo to the edge when closed, which make it a mess.



Sometimes it really make me wonder why do we have so many poorly designed item in our daily life

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:10 am And a list of non-CAD stuff.

• HP printers

I will never own another HP printer unless it's a large format printer, which they actually do a good job on again. I've owned at least a half a dozen and pretty much everyone was replaced fairly quickly because it was a piece of junk.

OTOH I got an HP large format plotter and it ran forever without issue. Had to replace the belt a couple times but that was it. I ran thousands of "D" and "E" size prints on that thing.

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:10 am

• people

I've actually offended more than a couple people by saying this. I always bring up the spinal cord as am absolutely horrific design aspect of the human body. Even small children figure out at a pretty young age that stacking singular blocks one on top of each other is not a great idea. :-)

The human body is a perfect example of many things that you should NOT due and also a perfect example of why some times it's just better to start over than to try and make the current revision of a design adapt to a new design.

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 am Since a lot of us here had been complaining how bad the SWAMP is...

I thought I will start this new thread for everyone to pay tribute to all the "bad designs" that make you laugh, cringe, or both.

Feel free to drop any "bad design", be it software, hardware, user interface, graphic, etc, etc.

For some reason three cars came to mind.

One of the old Ford cougars, can't remember which year, with a certain size motor, you had to remove the motor mount and lift the engine a couple inches....to remove one of the spark plugs.

I think it was an oldsmobile/Buick/whatever where they incorporated the oil filter into the oil drain. Instead of a small plug you pulled out to let the oil drain and THEN pull the filter, you had this HUGE hole in the bottom of the oil pan. Almost no matter what you did as soon as you cracked it loose, which was a feat in itself because you where prying open a 4" diameter rubber gasket, the oil went spraying everywhere. This was particularly exiting on a 100 degree day when the owner decided an oil change would be a GREAT idea after running errands all day long.

One of the vettes was designed with the starter under the fuel manifold....really?! I have to pull the entire fuel system, manifold etc to change the starter?

MJuric wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:08 am For some reason three cars came to mind.

One of the old Ford cougars, can't remember which year, with a certain size motor, you had to remove the motor mount and lift the engine a couple inches....to remove one of the spark plugs.

I think it was an oldsmobile/Buick/whatever where they incorporated the oil filter into the oil drain. Instead of a small plug you pulled out to let the oil drain and THEN pull the filter, you had this HUGE hole in the bottom of the oil pan. Almost no matter what you did as soon as you cracked it loose, which was a feat in itself because you where prying open a 4" diameter rubber gasket, the oil went spraying everywhere. This was particularly exiting on a 100 degree day when the owner decided an oil change would be a GREAT idea after running errands all day long.

One of the vettes was designed with the starter under the fuel manifold....really?! I have to pull the entire fuel system, manifold etc to change the starter?

For at least one year New Holland skid-loaders had the battery located beside the boom. There was just one problem: it wasn't accessible if the boom was down. When is the last time you saw a skid-loader battery die while the boom was up? I mean, you're technically not even supposed to leave the seat with the boom up.....

MJuric wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:08 am For some reason three cars came to mind.

One of the old Ford cougars, can't remember which year, with a certain size motor, you had to remove the motor mount and lift the engine a couple inches....to remove one of the spark plugs.

I think it was an oldsmobile/Buick/whatever where they incorporated the oil filter into the oil drain. Instead of a small plug you pulled out to let the oil drain and THEN pull the filter, you had this HUGE hole in the bottom of the oil pan. Almost no matter what you did as soon as you cracked it loose, which was a feat in itself because you where prying open a 4" diameter rubber gasket, the oil went spraying everywhere. This was particularly exiting on a 100 degree day when the owner decided an oil change would be a GREAT idea after running errands all day long.

One of the vettes was designed with the starter under the fuel manifold....really?! I have to pull the entire fuel system, manifold etc to change the starter?

I have a co-worker whose mother-in-law had a PT Cruiser. She called him one day saying her battery needed to be replaced, and could he do that. He said "Sure, no problem." He was wrong. He finally contacted the dealership and asked them how to access the battery. It turns out you had to remove a front tire to get it out.

I am not proud of this, but lighting manufacturers never seem to provide adequate physical drawings, and yet my work is unhindered. This one was taken from an instruction manual image which showed the inside back mounting view, at an angle. I have an angle study sketch in this part, to derive its top and front planes. Sure, I could have reconstructed that profile to a proper orientation, but did not find reason to. I use only the primary planes to position this upon an exterior wall, so I renamed the initial planes / Z-Axis and made my own at the bottom.
If this troubles you, rest assured that I do not care about the considerations that you care about, because I do not do what you do.

I am not making this. I will not be changing this. I will not be developing its internal circuitry and wiring terminals or led cells or anything. I am showing it on a building filled with stuff. I mentioned an exterior wall, which happens to be extensively more developed than this bright piece of garbage is. My priorities are usefulness, efficiency, and applicable accuracy. The building's overall shipping width (at this one extremity) will be accurate.

Edit to add, after opening my email this morning. 2 business days (excluding the federal holiday) later, I received very good flat and cross section dimensional views from the manufacturer, pursuant to a contact form email request. I could now make it right, and even well. I will store these nice images in my sources folder, thereby ignore it, and move on with useful things like making my assemblers' and welders' lives easier without frustration.

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 am Since a lot of us here had been complaining how bad the SWAMP is...

I thought I will start this new thread for everyone to pay tribute to all the "bad designs" that make you laugh, cringe, or both.

Feel free to drop any "bad design", be it software, hardware, user interface, graphic, etc, etc.

I have, over the years, had my fair share of "Bad designs". To make matters worse I spent a good portion of my life being a "One man band" so when you design something there's no one else to look at it, discuss it, check it etc. You concept it, you design it, you detail it, you check it, you release it. The next person who lays eyes on it is the person dropping it on your desk because it won't work

The absolute worst most humiliating thing I ever did was design a wire bender that had absolutely no chance of ever working. Instead of bending the wires it just rotated them around in a circle.

It was one of those things you looked at a dozen times and in your head it was doing one thing. The second it became reality and you looked at it you said "WTF! that will never work!" The guys in the shop never let me live that one down.

MJuric wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:00 pm The absolute worst most humiliating thing I ever did was design a wire bender that had absolutely no chance of ever working. Instead of bending the wires it just rotated them around in a circle.

It was one of those things you looked at a dozen times and in your head it was doing one thing. The second it became reality and you looked at it you said "WTF! that will never work!" The guys in the shop never let me live that one down.

... can you... share it?

AlexB wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:12 pm ... can you... share it?

I don't even know if I have it anymore. I probably did that back in the late 90's early 00's. I probably have a back up of it somewhere though.

I have no idea what problem this gas can spout is designed to solve. What I can tell you is it takes 3 hands to operate, and I now spill several tablespoons of fuel every time I fill the lawn mower.

SPerman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:03 pm I have no idea what problem this gas can spout is designed to solve. What I can tell you is it takes 3 hands to operate, and I now spill several tablespoons of fuel every time I fill the lawn mower.

image.png

I've had the same gas can for several years now. It's aweful. It's designed to click the catch on the spot, then rest the catch on the edges of the gas tank opening. The spout had the breather built in. Problem is the gas coming out blocks the breathing action.

My best gas can is simply an angled spout with a breathing plug on the opposite side. Simple and works perfectly and it is a much older design. Some engineers felt the need to reinvent the wheel, or rather marketing got involved

I cut off the safety catch, and cut down the spring. That solved half of the problem but it still vaporlocks.

In my first year in a real engineering job, I designed a fixture that had the mounting bolts under another plate, so you could use the mounting bolts or the plate but not both. A set of through holes on the plate allowed you access the bolts. Never made that mistake again.

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:24 am ...Some engineers felt the need to reinvent the wheel, or rather marketing got involved

Nah, this has the stench of government regulation interference. Marketing is one level of silly, but government takes it much farther.

I've got a gas can with a completely different but equally useless valve on it. I'd have to guess that the actual purpose is to prevent vapor from escaping from the can, but unfortunately it also prevents gas from being poured.

And inevitably, the valve stops working. In the closed position.

You may be right....sometimes common sense goes out the window.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1252595

I watched the video and I have that exact gas can and it already has a locking mechanism that sucks. Over time the plastic mechanism no longer works correctly and you have to keep fiddling with it. I also have the one @SPerman has and it's worse. My favorite can is this one. Vent on the back allows it to breath when pouring, and cap for the vent and nozzle is a living hinge made from a plastic that does get brittle over time, polypropylene I think.
I sympathize and feel terrible for the families and kids getting injured or killed but you can't make everything foolproof. And parents should be educating their children to the dangers of using gasoline to start any kind of fire. Gasoline is explosively combustible and should not be used this way. Diesel or lighter fluid is much safer fuel for burning stuff.

matt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:35 am Nah, this has the stench of government regulation interference. Marketing is one level of silly, but government takes it much farther.

I've got a gas can with a completely different but equally useless valve on it. I'd have to guess that the actual purpose is to prevent vapor from escaping from the can, but unfortunately it also prevents gas from being poured.

And inevitably, the valve stops working. In the closed position.

Yep. Grubbermint for da win!

SPerman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:03 pm I have no idea what problem this gas can spout is designed to solve. What I can tell you is it takes 3 hands to operate, and I now spill several tablespoons of fuel every time I fill the lawn mower.

image.png

I don't have that exact gas can, but I do have one similar. I take the whole spout off the can and use a funnel to get the gas into the mower. That works pretty well.

At our local hardware you can actually get conversion kits for your gas cans. The conversion kit includes a flexible spout and a vent with a cap. You simply switch the spout, drill a hole in the back for the vent, and pop the vent cap in the hole. That's what I did to our gas cans and works great. With every bad design there is an opportunity for a retro kit!

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:39 am At our local hardware you can actually get conversion kits for your gas cans. The conversion kit includes a flexible spout and a vent with a cap. You simply switch the spout, drill a hole in the back for the vent, and pop the vent cap in the hole. That's what I did to our gas cans and works great. With every bad design there is an opportunity for a retro kit!

I think I got one of those "universal" kits, had three different threaded nuts, none fit any of the cans I have. Hey, it's America where our landfills are full of safe products that either don't work or fail. I'm a bit curious how much of our "carbon footprint" or whatever metric you use, is as a result of frivolous lawsuits. While the ones marching to save the earth are probably the first ones to file a lawsuit when they hurt themselves.

SPerman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:03 pm I have no idea what problem this gas can spout is designed to solve. What I can tell you is it takes 3 hands to operate, and I now spill several tablespoons of fuel every time I fill the lawn mower.

image.png

Those were designed to stop spills. If the can is knocked over supposedly the gas doesn't come out. However as you noted, now you end up spilling it when you're trying to get it where it's supposed to be

These "Work" on the exact right type of gas tank, the ones with a thin threaded side. Try to put gas into anything else and you may as well pour half it on the floor or unscrew the top and get a funnel.

MJuric wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:44 pm Those were designed to stop spills. If the can is knocked over supposedly the gas doesn't come out. However as you noted, now you end up spilling it when you're trying to get it where it's supposed to be

These "Work" on the exact right type of gas tank, the ones with a thin threaded side. Try to put gas into anything else and you may as well pour half it on the floor or unscrew the top and get a funnel.

I just ran across this article on someone else's frustration with those things

https://feedly.com/i/entry/1CGdPGnQy3iR ... e2:e324efd

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... topstories

Government regulation indeed. California to blame, as usual.

It's too difficult to find one of the new cans that works without spilling gas everywhere. Because of hurricanes I have several gas cans and the only ones that I don't spill gas everywhere are the ones I converted over to the old spouts.
This is one of those cases where the solution causes more harm than good...after they made that decision Dassault snapped up and made them part of the Platform team, I'm sure.

matt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:17 am I just ran across this article on someone else's frustration with those things

https://feedly.com/i/entry/1CGdPGnQy3iR ... e2:e324efd

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... topstories

Government regulation indeed. California to blame, as usual.

Personally, I had a ~20yr old 5 gal w/spout which leaked every where... origin was made in USA... from Idaho Illinois.
Bought a new 5 gal container w/flow control and shut-off from China... works GREAT!
Blaming CA? (yeah,.. so, it's CA's fault.. wow, that was easy)
Maybe user error, change... or education in how to fill/pour petrol,.. any better ideas (capitalism)?)
Consumer driven products, ideas and choice no?.. or did someone force you to buy it or nudge your elbow (someone from CA)?
Amazing... lately,.. we the people... blaming seems to be common theme lately or maybe part of the problem?

matt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:17 am I just ran across this article on someone else's frustration with those things

https://feedly.com/i/entry/1CGdPGnQy3iR ... e2:e324efd

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... topstories

Government regulation indeed. California to blame, as usual.

"It’s a truism in the auto industry that good design doesn’t cost more than bad design; it just requires more thought." I think this is the stunning part to so many REALLY bad design today. You have to ask two questions, "How much thought actually went into this" and "How in the world did this get designed, produced, tested and released and no one noticed that this product sucks"

This is not a case where a product was designed, tested and released and over the long term a whole bunch of flaws in the design cropped up. That to some degree, even a large degree, is forgivable. This is a case where something is designed, tested, released and never really worked and that fact is obvious but no one did anything about it.

To make matters worse I'd be we could sit down and come up with a half a dozen competing ideas that are probably better right off the top of our heads and my guess would be that some of them would actually be cheaper than these ridiculous designs.

Every time I see things like this I end up asking myself "Wow, am I SUPER GENIOUS, said in my best Wiley Coyote voice"....more realistically however is that for the most part most people just don't give a crap and companies know that enough people will buy whatever crap they sell no matter how shitty it is. It's the "Throw it over the wall" mentality.

zxys001 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:26 am Personally, I had a ~20yr old 5 gal w/spout which leaked every where... origin was made in USA... from Idaho.
Bought a new 5 gal container w/flow control and shut-off from China... works GREAT!
Blaming CA? (yeah,.. so, it's CA's fault.. wow, that was easy)
Maybe user error, change... or education in how to fill/pour petrol,.. any better ideas (capitalism)?)
Consumer driven products, ideas and choice no?.. or did someone force you to buy it or nudge your elbow (someone from CA)?
Amazing... lately,.. we the people... blaming seems to be common theme lately or maybe part of the problem?

I don't really care what you say......but the truth is: CA regulations is what drives that stuff.

If you want to use those cans because "it makes you feel better".....you're welcome. Please don't make me use it if I don't live in CA.

Then you have this in Oregon:

zxys001 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:26 am Personally, I had a ~20yr old 5 gal w/spout which leaked every where... origin was made in USA... from Idaho.
Bought a new 5 gal container w/flow control and shut-off from China... works GREAT!
Blaming CA? (yeah,.. so, it's CA's fault.. wow, that was easy)
Maybe user error, change... or education in how to fill/pour petrol,.. any better ideas (capitalism)?)
Consumer driven products, ideas and choice no?.. or did someone force you to buy it or nudge your elbow (someone from CA)?
Amazing... lately,.. we the people... blaming seems to be common theme lately or maybe part of the problem?

That's thing though. If I had heard one or two people claim "Wow these things suck" and everyone else was "Yeah no biggy, they work fine" I'd say user error. It's kind of like the other forum. If a couple crotchy individuals where complaining about it and everyone else was "Wow, really love the upgrade, works great!", then we have a couple people that don't like it. That's not the case with that forum and not the case with these gas cans.

Yes, even as the article states, there's actually a couple of these that work fairly well. However the vast majority in the last several years don't work well at all. Furthermore they are far more like the other forum where almost everyone I know has had problems with them and few people have gotten one where they said "Wow, love the upgrade, works great"...in fact until you I've never heard that.

As far as leaking. I've been using regular gas cans since I was a kid...so let's say a few years. The only time they leak is when the lids not on tight, a seal is bad or if you have an extendable spout version you end up jamming the spout back in because you hit the lip. Other than the latter problem the new versions are susceptible to all these.

On top of that however as mentioned in the article there are MANY additional ways to spill all over the place with many of the new versions and due to the bad design of many of these spills are essentially inevitable.

To make matters worse prior to these cans most cans came with lids for the spout and the vent....which prevented the issue with vapors, effectively, efficiently and inexpensively.

Now to the issue of capitalism. No doubt I could come up with a better design than most of these. Guess what though, it wouldn't matter because most people don't realize the issue until they bought a crappy one. How many people do you know go out, buy a can they use once a week for a couple minutes and then just throw it away and go buy a different one because they don't like it? They don't. They stick with the crappy one they bought because they don't want to toss the $20 into the toilet. They'd rather spill gas all over the driveway.

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:33 am

I don't really care what you say......but the truth is: CA regulations is what drives that stuff.

If you want to use those cans because "it makes you feel better".....you're welcome. Please don't make me use it if I don't live in CA.

Then you have this in Oregon:
P1070570.JPG

Yeah, caring is sharing... because I don't "feel or smell or see" gas all over the area I'm pouring ... sure and no problem or you're welcome.
FYI if you do live in Oregon (one of the oldest mfg of military gas cans) or Idaho, I'm pretty sure you have to have a certified container (and has NOTHING to do with CA)

zxys001 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:09 am Yeah, caring is sharing... because I don't "feel or smell or see" gas all over the area I'm pouring ... sure and no problem or you're welcome.
FYI if you do live in Oregon (one of the oldest mfg of military gas cans) or Idaho, I'm pretty sure you have to have a certified container (and has NOTHING to do with CA)

And yet.....the CA-approved gas cans are the leakiest ever made by mankind.

Like I said, feel free to use them. I don't live in CA or OR on purpose.

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:14 am And yet.....the CA-approved gas cans are the leakiest ever made by mankind.

Like I said, feel free to use them. I don't live in CA or OR on purpose.

I actually find the new cans almost completely unnecessary and if I had to guess they are the result of some level of crony capitalism.

I have some older cans that aren't the really old ones. They have a cap on the spout and a cap on the vent. If you leave them in the sun they actually build up pressure. There is no vapor leak with these. I suppose that if they fell over and the lid got knocked hard enough they may come off and spill. They don't have the retractable spout so that is a non issue.

So we have the contraptions that for the most part are not good to prevent a very few "Fall spills" and to save the environment from the few morons that decide to not put the lids back on.

How are these big enough issues that we forced a complete redesign of the gas can as we know it if there was not someone playing fast and loose with the profits to be made?

MJuric wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:30 am I actually find the new cans almost completely unnecessary and if I had to guess they are the result of some level of crony capitalism.

I have some older cans that aren't the really old ones. They have a cap on the spout and a cap on the vent. If you leave them in the sun they actually build up pressure. There is no vapor leak with these. I suppose that if they fell over and the lid got knocked hard enough they may come off and spill. They don't have the retractable spout so that is a non issue.

So we have the contraptions that for the most part are not good to prevent a very few "Fall spills" and to save the environment from the few morons that decide to not put the lids back on.

How are these big enough issues that we forced a complete redesign of the gas can as we know it if there was not someone playing fast and loose with the profits to be made?

Simple answer, in case you missed it: government.

I can't see how making a joke of a gas can could possibly be more profitable. Most people avoid them soooo.........???



Now we need to stop discussing causes so we can get back to whining about bad designs.

mike miller wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:14 am And yet.....the CA-approved gas cans are the leakiest ever made by mankind.

Like I said, feel free to use them. I don't live in CA or OR on purpose.

Why do we need your permission?

I think CA only said after 2001 you can not sell a "new" portable fuel vessel (<5 gal) out of metal? If you have a old metal jerrycan,.. you can use it.. if you come over the boarder with a new metal can,.. you can use it... so.. what's the problem?
Maybe, if you want to blame someone and it makes you "feel" better,... just go back to the original sources of what you seem to be blaming... probably RotoMolding/RotoMoulding (origin UK and started here in Chicago)) and how it changed the industry.... including... wait for this... the whole Agricultural and Food Process Industry.


Oh,.. here's a recent event you can blame...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1252595

Fix your gas can:

Sheesh. How did bitching about gas cans turn into politics? Forget I brought it up.

SPerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:11 am Sheesh. How did bitching about gas cans turn into politics? Forget I brought it up.

So now you're trying to burry the truth!

SPerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:11 am Sheesh. How did bitching about gas cans turn into politics? Forget I brought it up.

It's my fault. I blamed the bad design first on government in general, then on California regulations. I should know better. Sorry.

matt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:28 am It's my fault. I blamed the bad design first on government in general, then on California regulations. I should know better. Sorry.

You can argue whether Gov't should regulate and to what level, but these bad designs are on engineers and often corporate mandates, not government. As @MJuric mentioned, the design is bad because but consumers won't or can't bring the product back so there is no incentive to make it better. As far as the Gas Can executives are concerned, they sell a bunch of them and they have few returns. Honestly, does anyone even remember a gas can brand? If anything, you get upset it isn't working right and either:

1. Live with it
2. Modify it
3. Go to the store and buy a different design and hope it works.

Maybe number 3 is what the gas can execs are hoping for, continuous revenue.

matt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:28 am It's my fault. I blamed the bad design first on government in general, then on California regulations. I should know better. Sorry.

It's not your fault. You aren't responsible for the government in general or California regulations.

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:02 am ... but these bad designs are on engineers and often corporate mandates, not government.

That's easy to say, but the company board had to comply with the regulation, but didn't give the project a budget, and the manager had to schedule the work without any resources, and the engineer had to do it without any time. Without a real incentive carrot, the governmental stick is not enough to force good design.

matt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:50 am That's easy to say, but the company board had to comply with the regulation, but didn't give the project a budget, and the manager had to schedule the work without any resources, and the engineer had to do it without any time. Without a real incentive carrot, the governmental stick is not enough to force good design.

This is the part I don't tend to agree with. There's not a regulation passed that effects any large group of companies that there isn't a lobby for that company(ies) involved somewhere. Of the case is such that the companies actually have a large hand in forming those regulations.

So it goes like this.

People... "We're worried about the planet and the gas fumes killing it"

Government..."We're supposed to do what the people want regardless if they are idiots or not and besides it will make us look like we care and that will get us re-elected"

Business..."Well we have to do what government says so we better get involved in this lunacy. Government we can do this..."

Government..."Well that looks kinda like what the people asked for even though they have no idea what they are asking for and or what it takes to do it and most of us are lawyers and have no idea what it takes to make anything. Hell most of us can't even figure out how to change our own tires...but sure yeah, we are experts on everything so that looks like a great design!"

Business..."Ok sure we can do this...because we know doing it this way is going to be more profitable than the old simple cans we used to make because now we can sell them at 3X the price and blame it on the government"

Engineer..."Seriously WTF! is this? This is a stupid idea!"

Business..."Just design something so we can sell it. This is what the people want so they will buy it and when it sucks they will end up buying another one"

People..."Seriously! This thing sucks. I just turned myself into a mobile wick and nearly burnt my house down. I'm going to go buy a different one. DAMN IT! This one sucks too. I'll by one more....really...sucks. I'm buying a funnel instead and ripping the top off this thing"

Business..."See it's working the average customer now buys three gas cans instead of one and they never return it because they rip the part off that might break, use it as an open can of gas that now spews 10X more fumes into the environment than the old ones did. On top of that certainly the people will demand this travesty be fixed because the planet is dying and we can do this ALL over again"

Planet..."I figure I have another couple hundred years before I rid myself of this awful scourge of humanity"

matt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:50 am That's easy to say, but the company board had to comply with the regulation, but didn't give the project a budget, and the manager had to schedule the work without any resources, and the engineer had to do it without any time. Without a real incentive carrot, the governmental stick is not enough to force good design.

All likely true, but who can say when we don't know more specifics? We are assuming, unless someone here works a for gas can company and can give us the lowdown.

But in the end, bad design is on who, especially after this many years? Maybe the problem is I'm buying gas cans from Walmart which is likely a cheap knockoff design by engineers who are just copying something without understanding how it works.

Most cans have poor reviews however this design seems to get high marks:
https://www.surecanusa.com/gascan

MJuric wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:42 am This is the part I don't tend to agree with. There's not a regulation passed that effects any large group of companies that there isn't a lobby for that company(ies) involved somewhere. Of the case is such that the companies actually have a large hand in forming those regulations.

So it goes like this.

People... "We're worried about the planet and the gas fumes killing it"

Government..."We're supposed to do what the people want regardless if they are idiots or not and besides it will make us look like we care and that will get us re-elected"

Business..."Well we have to do what government says so we better get involved in this lunacy. Government we can do this..."

Government..."Well that looks kinda like what the people asked for even though they have no idea what they are asking for and or what it takes to do it and most of us are lawyers and have no idea what it takes to make anything. Hell most of us can't even figure out how to change our own tires...but sure yeah, we are experts on everything so that looks like a great design!"

Business..."Ok sure we can do this...because we know doing it this way is going to be more profitable than the old simple cans we used to make because now we can sell them at 3X the price and blame it on the government"

Engineer..."Seriously WTF! is this? This is a stupid idea!"

Business..."Just design something so we can sell it. This is what the people want so they will buy it and when it sucks they will end up buying another one"

People..."Seriously! This thing sucks. I just turned myself into a mobile wick and nearly burnt my house down. I'm going to go buy a different one. DAMN IT! This one sucks too. I'll by one more....really...sucks. I'm buying a funnel instead and ripping the top off this thing"

Business..."See it's working the average customer now buys three gas cans instead of one and they never return it because they rip the part off that might break, use it as an open can of gas that now spews 10X more fumes into the environment than the old ones did. On top of that certainly the people will demand this travesty be fixed because the planet is dying and we can do this ALL over again"

Planet..."I figure I have another couple hundred years before I rid myself of this awful scourge of humanity"

Replace "excited customer" with "excited bureaucrat".

I've driven cars that were less complicated than that gas can.

ETA:
I came hear this morning to try and kill the political talk, and it appears I just poured fuel on the flames.

SPerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:54 am I came hear this morning to try and kill the political talk, and it appears I just poured fuel on the flames.

Well maybe if you had one of these well regulated gas cans that wouldn't have happened

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:15 pm Well maybe if you had one of these well regulated gas cans that wouldn't have happened

Or should it be?