CAD Forum

I know this has been asked ad-nauseoum but I can't figure out how to find it in the swamp so...

This machine will do far more CAD than FEA and most of our models are fairly large. Especially since some in the past have liked threads on hardware ect. There will be some programing and little to no rendering done, at least in the foreseeable future.

We are looking at a new PC and somehow they stumbled into enough guidance to spec an I9-10900X 3.7GHz with 4.7GHz turbo and an Nvidia Quatro RTX4000 with 8GB.

My questions are:
a) what is the difference between standard and turbo frequency? Do I have to do something special to get it running at 4.7?
b) knowing fewer cores / higher frequency is important, is there an I7 with a higher frequency that would be faster and cheaper?
c) what about AMD processors?
d)Is 8 GB enough on the video card or do I need more?

Thank you

It's been nice to know you, Jim.

I am aware that with a faster computer you will no longer have time to post while waiting.....

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm
My questions are:
a) what is the difference between standard and turbo frequency? Do I have to do something special to get it running at 4.7?

Not typically at least to my knowledge. The OS looks at what is being asked of it and adjust the load and frequency accordingly. Open up your task manager>open resource monitor>CPU tab. It will show all your cores. Fire up an app and you will notice a spike on one or a couple of them. Start an FEA and depending what kind one or multiple of them will spike and stay there until the FEA is done.

Not looked at your particular CPU but the "Turbo" comes with conditions. Sometimes it that for only one core at a time, some CPU are a couple and some are all cores can hit that speed at the same time.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm b) knowing fewer cores / higher frequency is important, is there an I7 with a higher frequency that would be faster and cheaper?

Not really fewer cores but max speed. Going for more cores that have less speed if your mainly doing CAD is a waste. Going for more cores at the same speed is bonus just in case.

I'd take a look at the performance testing at Puget systems. They test different CPU's in different operations and many of them perform different tasks differently. I've always shy'd away from trying to get the leading edge of anything because the "Bang for the buck" is typically not worth it. I've not looked recently but when I was looking last the i7-9700K was performing nearly as well as some of i9 10th gen chips. At the time the i7 was a good 50% less.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm c) what about AMD processors?

Same thing look at the Puget System tests. They test many of the AMD chips as well and specifically for SW tasks. The only thing I would be leery of would be support. If you have any issues I suspect your VAR is probably used to looking at Intel not AMD.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm d)Is 8 GB enough on the video card or do I need more?

Thank you

Right now you mays as well be buying gold if you're buying a video card and that is if you can even get one. five months ago the Quadro 4000RTX could be had in the $750-$850 range today it's twice that.

That doesn't answer your question but if you can put off the purchase for 2-4 months you can probably save yourself almost a grand just on the video card. 8GB will be fine but it's based entirely on what you're doing with. Again, Puget systems tests these cards with SW specific operations...sounds like I work for them...I don't. They just put together some really nice SW/CAD specific testing that is hard to find anyplace else. Video game performance does not always translate to CAD performance.

MJuric wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:20 pm

Thank you for the details Matt. Ya, I knew that fewer cores didn't really speed things up but I have had a struggle trying to convince people that more wasn't better in this case. I didn't have any idea how turbo worked and while 4.7 GHz sounded good I was hoping to have more than 3.7 for running SW if it was available.
@mike miller unfortunately the machine is for the new graduate that starts next month. I get to keep my boat anchor.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:54 pm Thank you for the details Matt. Ya, I knew that fewer cores didn't really speed things up but I have had a struggle trying to convince people that more wasn't better in this case. I didn't have any idea how turbo worked and while 4.7 GHz sounded good I was hoping to have more than 3.7 for running SW if it was available.
@mike miller unfortunately the machine is for the new graduate that starts next month. I get to keep my boat anchor.

Yes you will have UP TO 4.7 GHz. How many cores that will be available on is dependent on the chip. Essentially it's a power issue. More Hrtz, more power. Some chips are designed to allow less power than others and thus only one core at a time can hit max or some combination of hrtz to hit max power.

95% of the time while running SW you'll not be using much of it anyway.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm I know this has been asked ad-nauseoum but I can't figure out how to find it in the swamp so...

This machine will do far more CAD than FEA and most of our models are fairly large. Especially since some in the past have liked threads on hardware ect. There will be some programing and little to no rendering done, at least in the foreseeable future.

We are looking at a new PC and somehow they stumbled into enough guidance to spec an I9-10900X 3.7GHz with 4.7GHz turbo and an Nvidia Quatro RTX4000 with 8GB.

My questions are:
a) what is the difference between standard and turbo frequency? Do I have to do something special to get it running at 4.7?
b) knowing fewer cores / higher frequency is important, is there an I7 with a higher frequency that would be faster and cheaper?
c) what about AMD processors?
d)Is 8 GB enough on the video card or do I need more?

Thank you

One thing you didn't mention was the Hard drive. I would assume at this point everyone is using SSD's but if not make sure you are. On top of that you should look into what SSD you're getting. Hard Drive Read/Write has, in my opinion, a larger impact on actual performance and feel than CPU speed.

You can get SSD's that have a significantly larger performance difference than you'll see in CPU's.

I just did a quick search on a forum and the difference in write performance between the fastest and 50th fastest SSD was 117%. These are all the same form factor and interface all from Brand reputable manufacturers.

Turbo aka OEM overclocking.
Base clock is freq CPU can run indefinitely on OEM cooling.
Turbo is short term OC. With improved cooling, it can run for a long time.
On some CPU, each core has its own turbo speed.
Like the early 5GHz turbo, only one core could go 5GHz for a very short time.

So base clock is what you want to pay for.
Core will help overall OS responsiveness. Since most don't just use SW.
Simulation will use more core.

Jim Steinmeyer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm
My questions are:
a) what is the difference between standard and turbo frequency? Do I have to do something special to get it running at 4.7?
b) knowing fewer cores / higher frequency is important, is there an I7 with a higher frequency that would be faster and cheaper?
c) what about AMD processors?
d)Is 8 GB enough on the video card or do I need more?

Thank you

a) Standard frequency is what the CPU runs at under idle to medium levels of load. Turbo frequency is enabled for high to max loads. Usually this is managed in power settings for Windows, or in the BIOS.

b) Check out https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html for single-thread benchmarks. Solidworks is mostly single-threaded, so you want to ignore core/thread counts and go for raw speed. Off this list, a newer-gen i7 would be equivalent price* and should offer better performance.

c) I'm something of a Ryzen fanboy so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but Intel is largely getting their @$$ handed to them by AMD right now in terms of performance per $. Pretty much all of the Ryzen 5XXX series will contend with Intel's highest paid offerings at a discount.* Specifically, the Ryzen 7 5800X is one of the best single thread CPUs on the market right now.

d) 8GB should be plenty.

*The reason I have the big, eff-off asterisks are because chip shortage means prices for computer components are all over the place right now. If you can find something at MSRP, you take it. Some pre-built OEMs haven't adjusted their pricing as much for this, so you might be able to find components cheaper if you get the rest of the computer alongside it.

phealy_lssi wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 4:58 pm
*The reason I have the big, eff-off asterisks are because chip shortage means prices for computer components are all over the place right now. If you can find something at MSRP, you take it. Some pre-built OEMs haven't adjusted their pricing as much for this, so you might be able to find components cheaper if you get the rest of the computer alongside it.

I'm starting to understand what it was like living state side during WWII. I'm wondering when we will start having steel drives and rationing on coffee.

I just can't believe that as highly automated as chip manufacturing facilities are that somehow Covid has had a significant impact on output. Maybe they just can't get raw materials.

GPU's are absolutely ridiculous right now and people are still buying them. GPU companies, vendors etc are making a killing right now selling boards today for 2X or more than they were six months ago and you couldn't get them six months ago.

Companies are also using this "Opportunity" to squeeze more money out of people by making the only way to get a product is if you "Buy the bundle". Somehow you can get an XBox if you ALSO buy the All you can eat game buffet option but of course that doubles the price. However try finding a single Xbox console. You better be prepared to monitor every outlet on the internet 24/7/365.