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Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:28 pm
by colt
One of our clients is requesting models of our products so they can build a prototype assembly for their customer. Our client has a similar product line to us and would would be considered a competitor in some regards. It is in our best interest retain all information in the model so that the end customer sees an impressive prototype. However we do not want our client to have any of our useful data.
I tried using defeature/save external faces on assembly but this still shows an uncomfortable amount of information. I almost had the perfect solution which was to create a speedpack of our assembly and then delete all components in the assembly which only left an out of context speedpack. This was great because nothing was selectable in sw and any pdf generated from the drawing was raster (preventing any adobe illustrator exploits). However, opening this model in edrawings allowed for full selection and even an export of the full model to stl file.
I don't think I can convince my boss to not send the models as our client is a great customer. We do have an nda with them but I am not sure we would actually act on it. What would you do in this situation?
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:11 pm
by jcapriotti
@colt What version of SolidWorks are you on? Defeature would be the way to go.....there are a lot of options depending on the version you have.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:19 pm
by SPerman
Isn't there a way to save a lighweight representation of the assembly? Maybe I'm thinking of NX.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:30 am
by jcapriotti
SPerman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:19 pm
Isn't there a way to save a lighweight representation of the assembly? Maybe I'm thinking of NX.
There are a couple of options......just depends on what you mean by lightweight and how much detail you want to include. Defeature removes details and give a lot of options for just including boundary faces.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:53 am
by colt
Thanks all. I am on 2018 and they are on 2019. Unfortunately, most of our ip comes from major features and overall dimensions. It would not be that hard for them to measure our product or trace over the raster drawing. I am just trying to make it as difficult as possible while giving the best representation. I will look more into the lightweight representation.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:37 pm
by zwei
What they need the file for? Viewing? Or is it for manufacturing (eg: CNC, prototyping)?
If it is only for viewing...
How about
1. Export only the "EXTERNAL FACE"
2. Export as eDrawing without measure capability, disable STL generation option, etc // Export as html from edrawing
It really depend on what the file is used for and how much info you willing to share...
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:50 pm
by colt
They just need the file to put into their assembly to plan their layout make sure there is no interference with their product (visually only). AND the end customer will eventually see their model/rendering and need to be impressed with our sub-components.
Disabling those options in edrawings was really close. I just need them to be able to insert that in an assembly now...
I might have to just live with external face only. They could still deduce the design using standard material thicknesses but it would be a hurdle.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:54 pm
by Frederick_Law
Make a config of only parts you need to show.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:46 pm
by SPerman
colt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:53 am
most of our ip comes from major features and overall dimensions.
If giving away your overall dimensions is a bad thing, I have no idea how you give them a model for packaging. Overall dimensions are kind of the point.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 pm
by AlexLachance
colt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:28 pm
One of our clients is requesting models of our products so they can build a prototype assembly for their customer. Our client has a similar product line to us and would would be considered a competitor in some regards. It is in our best interest retain all information in the model so that the end customer sees an impressive prototype. However we do not want our client to have any of our useful data.
I tried using defeature/save external faces on assembly but this still shows an uncomfortable amount of information. I almost had the perfect solution which was to create a speedpack of our assembly and then delete all components in the assembly which only left an out of context speedpack. This was great because nothing was selectable in sw and any pdf generated from the drawing was raster (preventing any adobe illustrator exploits). However, opening this model in edrawings allowed for full selection and even an export of the full model to stl file.
I don't think I can convince my boss to not send the models as our client is a great customer. We do have an nda with them but I am not sure we would actually act on it. What would you do in this situation?
One thing we learned over here, is to not fret over small details like this. Whoever is concidered a competitor of us, has generally something that competes against whatever we have, and while we do innovate all the time, we are aware that people will then figure out a way to either copy us or improve upon whatever new design we have. It's also what helps us innovate at all times, being challenged by competition.
Of course, domains differ, and it might not be the case for you. There are companies with pockets deep enough to figure a way to get whatever product you have in their yard so that they can spec it entirely from one end to the other.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:44 pm
by mike miller
AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 pm
One thing we learned over here, is to not fret over small details like this. Whoever is concidered a competitor of us, has generally something that competes against whatever we have, and while we do innovate all the time, we are aware that people will then figure out a way to either copy us or improve upon whatever new design we have. It's also what helps us innovate at all times, being challenged by competition.
Of course, domains differ, and it might not be the case for you. There are companies with pockets deep enough to figure a way to get whatever product you have in their yard so that they can spec it entirely from one end to the other.
I agree 100%. Working for an OEM myself, I know that generalized concepts or dimensions are simply impossible to keep secret. A motivated competitor can easily find one of your products and apply a tape measure and a camera.
If he can't find one he'll buy one.
(Watch out for those customers with dark sunglasses.)
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:09 pm
by colt
Again thanks everyone for your input. I will probably run with the broken speedpack strategy. If they are clever enough and want to mess around converting from stl, so be it.
AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 pm
we are aware that people will then figure out a way to either copy us
I am probably being too paranoid. We've had designs blatantly copied in the past as well. I am still butthurt over that.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:28 pm
by Andy
A couple of manufactures have asked us for models to insert into their assemblies. I just create "solid" STEP files, with any important internal geometry (seal grooves/pistons/pockets etc.) removed.
At the end of the day though, basic (and even quite involved) reverse engineering is simple and cheap these days. As
@AlexLachance says, any company with even the most modest of budgets, can soon copy your products. Odds are it's already on AliExpress somewhere being churned out by factories in China! A number of my designs are!
On the flip side, we have a hand-held 3D scanner and Faro Arm. Reverse-engineering, or at least inspection of competitors and/or OEM parts, is all part of the business of manufacturing.
Re: Exporting model with no retrievable data
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:26 pm
by AlexLachance
Andy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:28 pm
A couple of manufactures have asked us for models to insert into their assemblies. I just create "solid" STEP files, with any important internal geometry (seal grooves/pistons/pockets etc.) removed.
At the end of the day though, basic (and even quite involved) reverse engineering is simple and cheap these days. As @AlexLachance says, any company with even the most modest of budgets, can soon copy your products. Odds are it's already on AliExpress somewhere being churned out by factories in China! A number of my designs are!
On the flip side, we have a hand-held 3D scanner and Faro Arm. Reverse-engineering, or at least inspection of competitors and/or OEM parts, is all part of the business of manufacturing.
People ask us to make trailers to carry specific machinery all the time. Of course we do not have these machineries drawn at our places, but there are overall dimensions on the internet that you can find and also pictures that are in the right angle that you can then put on SolidWorks and scale accordingly and draw around it to have whatever shape you require. In the case of those machineries, what makes it harder to copy is knowing how the wiring and hydraulics is done and then figuing out whatever valve is needed for what application the machinery does.
If you're anywhere into that domain, you can do the same thing and extrapolate from that and begin innovating around it. For example, if someone wants to copy the trailer that I showed a video from a week or two ago, it wouldn't be all that hard. There's probably competitors that have flown in just to spec it without anyone really knowing. If not, they could just take overall dimensions and a picture to get the overall shape and then use logic to define the concept and eventually innovate.
